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some fear in the house bill there's right to life. from that standpoint you have every right to fear. you shouldn't have counseling at the end of life. you should have counseling 20 years before you're going to live. we shouldn't have a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on grandma. >> that was not constructive,

senator grassley. >> perhaps somebody slipped in a midnight amendment, mika, that would a actually allow you -- what did senator grassley say -- allow you to pull the plug on grandma? >> that's not nice. he's supposed to be a little more helpful, i think. >> i think that's not constructive. >> yeah. >> so the death panel talk continues. >> it's ridiculous. >> guess who benefits from it? >> who? >> democrats. >> they do. there's somewhere to go with the blame and somewhere to go to push this through. pat buchanan is with us. willie geist is getting in place in new york. on the front page of "the washington post," dick cheney -- oh, mike barnicle is in new york as well. this is perfect. hi, mike. are you grumpy? what's going on? >> i have an 8:30 a.m. appointment this morning with my death panel, and i'm preparing for it. i'm nervous today. >> you know how that goes. >> choose wisely on whose plug

you want to pull. >> generate good energy. >> -- a senator would still go around and say something that's clearly not true. you have reason to be worried, our federal government shouldn't, quote, pull the plug on grandma. >> certainly shouldn't have a program to that effect. this is one of the guys that is not going to negotiate on the final deal, on the budget -- >> not anymore. >> they only had three republicans. >> it looks like the two citizens from maine that are the only voice of moderation remaining. >> one of the oldest states in the nation and he was anticipating the question that was coming. >> the 0 other story about dick cheney is on the front page of "the washington post." the statute of limitations has expired on many secrets according to the vice president and a lot of it we maybe thought was going on, pat, but it's in black and white.

>> dick cheney frustrated with the president, right? >> yeah, that would be one way. >> how about president bush? critical of president bush. >> bush did move away on foreign policy after the big defeat in 2006 and he moved very close to condi rice in negotiations and all the rest of it. >> he fired dick cheney's man, don rumsfeld, two guys who had been together. they moved foreign policy toward bush 41 foreign policy, obviously not happy. >> scooter libby didn't get justice, joe. >> scooter libby, that's right. we now have three people to fight for, scooter, blago, and of cowers our other good friend in illinois -- >> roland burris. >> he is a good friend. >> the legend. >> let's get to news now. >> eddie calhoun, roland burris. >> exactly. let's look at the top stories. >> being a troublemaker today. i already thought i had enough with barnicle. moving on to news now.

time for a look at some of today's top stories. after months of dire warnings the federal reserve is offering its first upbeat assessment of the american economy since the financial crisis took hold. they're keeping interest rates near zero as expected. policymakers say economic activity is, quote, leveling out and the fed is preparing to wind down emergency programs used to stimulate growth. it is welcome news to investors who pushed markets higher across the board yesterday and the scottish government -- >> can i just say really quickly this is so strange, mika, and you and i see it every day. we have the government telling us things are getting better and all the experts, all the people with the big money, are the most nervous and elizabeth warren yesterday -- >> that was great. fascinating interview. >> said don't -- this is not going to be a "v." she fears it's going to be a "w." so i just wonder why the government is telling us that things are getting better while everybody that has money and

everybody that knows is scared, pat. >> basically the banks still have this toxic paper on their books it is not worth what they're carrying. it's a huge weight and some of these banks are still underwater and this is going to come to the surface. >> it was a pretty stunning interview. >> i was astounded and she is sort of associated with the democratic party. >> well, she was appointed by democrats to this position but she definitely yesterday was saying, mika, we haven't changed anything and, in fact, banks are allowed to play with the books more now than they were -- >> bernanke says happy days are here again. >> terrific. >> there's a real disconnect between what bernanke is saying and what the government is saying and what people that actually are involved in the game are saying. >> and looking at the numbers very closely. >> the markets are going up. we had a really good runup the last three months in the polls.

>> pat, you're going to be able to retire. >> it goes down, i'll be riding it down again, joe. >> all right. moving on with news. the scottish government is reportedly considering an early prison release of former libyan agents convicted in the 1988 lockerbie bombings. a 57-year-old has terminal prostate cancer and the release should come on compassionate grounds. he's serving a life sentence for blowing up a pan am airliner two decades ago killing 270 people. most of them americans. more town halls are scheduled today following the latest flare-ups around the country. although senator byron dorgan was talking health care, the discussion was largely drowned out. >> we do not have the best health care system in the world. we have the -- [ audience boos ]

>> let me ask this -- look, i'm here because i want to be here. you're here because you want to be here. let's at least treat people with respect. don't boo her. >> now while those reactions appear increasingly common, the white house is suggesting the outrage is more a media sideshow than legitimate opposition. >> some of you were disappointed yesterday the president didn't get yelled at. i do think there was some disappointment because a bunch of your stories had more to do with the fact the sideshow on the outside rather than going on inside of the town hall. i doubt we're seeing a representative sample of any series of town hall meetings despite the food fight on cable every day. >> okay, pat and joe, because they definitely think -- and, well, there is something to be said for the media focusing in -- the media, us being part of it -- on the sound bite. >> it is our fault. >> that's my question. >> seriously, it's our fault

barack obama has lost 20 percentage points in approval ratings over the last couple of months. it is our fault that he's upside-down on the health care. this is what we call whistling past the graveyard. i remember walter mondale interviewed on the morning, pat buchanan, of the 1984 election and they asked him about the polls. they all looked bleak and that was his response. don't worry. i'm going to beat ronald reagan tonight. you people in the media are generating this and ronald reagan, of course, won 49 states. you know what, they don't believe that, by the way. i like robert and if i were in robert's position i would be compelled to say the same thing. they don't believe that in the white house. they know this health care reform plan is in trouble. >> sure. we didn't get those crowds 1,500, 2,000 out to these town hall meet. they came out, we covered them, and you do pick up the confrontation moment. i do think broder has a point.

we were talking yesterday -- or someone else said specter had a great moment in that confrontation. and broder says he thinks there's going to be a backlash coming as there was when nix nixon -- all the people attacked nixon, the anti-war demonstrators. nixon would go up in the polls. so we're going to find out these confrontations, who they help and who they hurt. >> mike barnicle, chime in. it does seem these crowds for the most part when you get a group that large fairly genuine. people are scared. >> people are scared. the point of the demonstrators, i would think, at least anecdotally is what did they pass on their way to these town hall rallies and having driven around new england the past two or three days, just new england, i will tell you they passed a lot of boarded-up storefronts, they passed a lot of automobile sales shops that are now out of business, huge parking lots empty, factories where you look in the windows as you pass them, there's nobody working. there's a lot of fear out in this land about employment, about the future, about the word

pension having disappeared, about their 401(k) diminished, and by the time they get to the town hall meetings, the health care bill, the cost of it, the deficits that we're running up just adds to the frustration and anger that many people are feeling and it explodes. >> mika, it is connected and this is what mike's been saying all along, what we've been saying all along, criticism of the obama administration is and as i've been saying colin powell's been saying it. too scattered. thoer overloading the circuits. it's about jobs, jobs, and more jobs and these people that show up -- yes, the screamers and the shouters, yes, that's a small percentage. but these crowds are massive for august political rallies. they are concerned and mike once again nails it. it's about jobs as these people go to town hall meetings, pat, and they see shuttered up -- and this is so important. they see and i see it in my hometown of pensacola, one business after another that i've

seen open for 30 years nailed, you know, shut, and people are thinking, okay, wait a second, why are we tackling something that is such a mess and so big now before reopening stores on main street? >> mike is talking about new hampshire '92 or '91. when you went up there, you go up to la cone yeah and find, what, they're auctioning off houses because people can't pay their taxes. all these little malls are boarded up. that whole place was in desperate situations and the white house, with due respect to george bush one, completely out of touch. >> they were out of touch. >> and i think this is what mike was saying, you get a lot of this anger, concern and fear and apprehension beand it's all bui up. they're hearing about this health plan and they respond. >> it's not just that. mike barnicle, it's also, let's say for instance, cam and trade. cap and trade very important to those on the far left in america

but if you look at polls that have been released lately, that is so insignificant. i know global warming is something celebrities and people on the left are just absolutely wrapped up in. it's the most important thing in the world to a lot of these people. you look at the polls of americans. that is so low on the list, it's in single digits, i believe. i'm sure somebody from media matters will say -- i've seen polls where americans who care about the environment, global warming is on the bottom of that list and yet they jammed this bill through congress and, again, it just distracts americans from what you say are the top priorities. jobs, jobs, and jobs. >> most normal people in this country when you mention cap and trade to them they'll ask you a question like, well, are we going to get a pitcher in return? they don't know what cap and trade is. >> by the way, mike, i'm not

even weighing in on the global warming debate or the health care debate now. i'm simply talking about overloading the circuits with ideological items that middle america just doesn't give a damn about for the most part while they're out of work. i'm sorry, mike. go ahead. >> one of the problems the obama administration is confronting right now, joe, i would submit, everything that they're doing with the exception of not paying enough attention to the economy in many people's opinion, jobs, jobs, jobs, is they're rattling, shaking the structural foundations of things that have been set in place for 40, 50 years. now maybe that's necessary but when you rattle the foundations of anything, the people living above the foundations are going to be wondering what's going on? i'm getting a little scared here. that's what's going on. >> all right. mike barnicle, i do think it's the economy not only makes you -- you think they're muddling it? i think it scares people the if i don't have a job, i'm going to have to deal with the health care. >> i don't think they're

muddling it. i think there's just too much stuff going on and, again, if this were 1999 and the economy was great, then, yes, the president can say we can afford this. and if this were 2004-2005 and the economy was great, they could do it. you can't do all this stuff in the recession. everybody talks about the new deal. fdr, everything fdr did was focus on getting the banks on solid ground and getting people back to work. here we're going for cap and trade, let's save the environment, we're going for health care. it doesn't really save health care. it doesn't help long term. they're doing all of these things that, again, distract from what mike barnicle has said for some time is the only thing that matters right now to americans, getting the economy going again. >> we'll talk about this more and the dick cheney story as well on the break but we have got to get to bill karins. >> we do. >> i mean, are you okay with that? >> i guess. >> let's go to bill karins for the latest check on the forecast. bill? good morning, everyone.

let's start with tropical depression number two. this is supposed to turn into tropical storm anna. it did not overnight. it actually weakened. we may be done with this storm by the end of the day. here we are in the middle of august and we haven't even had our first storm. last year we'd already had five. as far as the forecast today, we have some showers from boston down to cape cod, also around hartford into the lower hudson valley we have some showers, too. stars the forecast for today, carry that umbrella with you from philadelphia up through the boston area. temperatures are cooler today because of all those clouds. the other trouble spot, down there in the southeast. i think i'm in trouble today, too, barnicle. do you want to give me the whole life lesson thing? >> you are in a troubled state of mind. >> i don't want that life lesson. back to you and joe, mika. coming up, secretary of state hillary clinton making more news on her trip in africa. >> he's positive, right? she didn't blow up, did she? >> actually i think she made a very good point but everybody else may be -- pat, no, no. hear what she had to say about

the 2000 election. bob shrum will be with us. gail collins, this morning she writes about the fragile issue of guns at town hall meetings. dylan ratigan of "morning meeti meeting" will join us and andrea mitchell as well. msnbc political analyst harold ford jr. and savannah guthrie will be here. plus an exclusive look at the top stories politico is working on this morning. you are watching "morning joe." bicycle, i've missed you. gathering dust, as pollen floats through the air. but with the strength of zyrtec ® , the fastest, 24-hour allergy relief, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. with zyrtec ® i can love the air ™ .

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president obama has been explaining his health care plan to senior citizens and said he would not pull the plug on grandma. that's what he said. i will not pull -- that's what he said. you're applauding that, yeah. oh, good. that's good. no, obama said i will not pull

the plug on grandma, yeah. and then an awkward moment when grandpa stood up and booed. >> all right. here with us now executive editor of politico jim vandehei. >> good morning, guys. how are you? >> doing great. let's talk about words and the ones president obama is using in speeches. i know you dispatched your team of researchers. tell us what you found. >> we analyzed every public appearance and every public speech obama has given and tried to figure out what words does he use the most because rhetoric matters so much to the mourn pred si. you would think this is a president not a wartime president because he barely ever talks about iraq, afghanistan, iran, or terrorism. in fact, he's used the word health more than those four terms combined since becoming president. words like economy. words like energy dominate his rhetoric in both speeches, in press conferences and in interviews that he gives. at the same time, interestingly, he's really downplayed any of

the hot button issues, only used the word gay 15 times, abortion 30 or so times, immigration 39 times. so i think this is a really good snapshot what this president thinks is important. he puts more thought than most into the words that he speaks or into the message that his white house delivers. >> that's interesting, jim. let me ask you this. how many people do you have on your staff there that look through every single word the president says because we have two people working for us. >> that's all it takes. >> two people? >> one rocking intern actually. >> yes, joe is this. >> did jim -- did you just say that barack obama's only used the words abortion and gay 15 times since he's been president? >> since he's been president, correct. >> because pat buchanan, he uses those words 15 times in a single paragraph delivering a political speech. >> our intern is doing the same thing with everything pat has said on your show.

>> dear lord. >> it will be out tomorrow. >> lock and load. >> please don't do that. jim, back to health care for a moment if we could. president obama getting a little air cover, i guess you want to call it from an interesting group. who is it? >> mike allen has a great scoop this morning. there's going to be a new group that comes out -- i think they're going to announce at 11:00 this morning they're going to spend $12 million in support of health care obama wants and includes the ama, it's going to have the drug companies teaming up with labor unions like the sciu and reform groups like usa families to spend a ton of money trying to get momentum back for obama. this could cause problems on the left because a lot of liberals are upset that the drug companies have become so cozy with the obama administration in trying to push for this deal and they're suspicious of precisely why. >> you have doctors, unions, and drug companies all together. very interesting. very interesting combination. finally yesterday at this time you told us about rick santorum possibly jumping into the 2012

race and now you have some news about someone else. tell us about it. >> newt gingrich is on that list of people who is not running, kind of running, might run in 2012 and he's trying to position himself as a man with ideas. today he's going to appear before a think tank, a conservative think tank in washington and he's going to give a four-hour class on smarter ways to govern and in typical newt gingrich fashion, he's going to have 198 slides. kill them with his intellect. >> wow. four hours, 198 slides. >> i'm just going to be honest, no, i don't think he is and the reason he's not is he's a great ideas guy. he's great intellect against the conservative movement but, pat, i think you'll agree with me, newt always, and we saw this in the house, he always seems to stumble across a horrific headline. he will follow sarah palin in the death panel talk.

he will fumble around and call the president of the -- suggest the president of the united states is a reverse racist. he always goes for that one extra punch that usually gets him the horrible headlines that help him with the base but would hurt him with the people you need to win. >> he used the racist term on sotomayor. >> i'm sorry, sotomayor. >> i agree with that. i think he grabs for that big headline to get out there and reaches too far. and i think you have a real problem organizing that out there in iowa on the conservative side. a lot of skepticism about the guy. you get huckabee and sarah palin out there and they suck up all the oxygen. >> i have to say, really you will sit there and listen to newt give speeches, and i have since 1994. >> we went to one. >> we went to one. time magazine, it was an hour speech for 55 minutes.

>> we were in the front row. >> we were in the front row. i was thinking this guy is so brilliant. he needs to get back out there and then in the last five minutes he said something -- i forget what he said. i don't know if he said obama was doing things that was un-american -- >> was it his dad? >> it was one of those headlines where you sat there thinking, oh, god 0, this would be the huge headline coming out of it if he were running for president and then the last two minutes he said mika's dad ran the worst foreign policy team in the history of the united states of america with mika sitting in the front row and i sat there thinking, oh, okay, maybe this might be why he gets the bad headlines. sometimes you just need to bite your tongue and speaker gingrich sometimes didn't know when to do that. willie asked honestly, that's the honest truth. he's a great intellect but sometimes he just says the wrong

thing. >> okay. still ahead, we're going to get the latest headlines out of the white house with chuck todd and in a few minutes "the daily beat's" tina brown will join us. show up for your text alert. find out about upcoming guests and get text alerts. ( conversation ) garth, you're up. hold on, i'm at capitalone.com picking a photo... for my credit card. here's one from my prom. oh, what memories. how 'bout one from our golf outing? ( shouting ) i know, maybe one of my first-born son. dad, mom says the boys gotta go. personalize your card by uploading... your own photo at capitalone.com. what's in your wallet? ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe" just before 6:30 on the east coast. time for a look at some of today's top stories. with the prison in guantanamo bay set to be closed by january, "the new york times" is reporting federal officials will tour a michigan state prison today as a potential site to relocate detainees. the facility is just one of eight the state is planning to close during a -- due to a down turn in revenue. the administration says no decisions have been made. today afghanistan president c karzai is leading government positions. the vote come as more than 100,000 international troops continue to battle the country's raging insurgency. and jetblue is offering an all you can fly airfare deal. >> wow. >> hello. in an attempt to boost lagging

sales. for $599 you can fly to and from any city jetblue services between september 8th and october 8th. okay. still, travel experts say there are restrictions and suggest a close reading of the fine print. >> i'm going to call susan. >> what's the fine print? >> three days advanced purchase and if you cancel you have to pay like a huge penalty. >> still worth it. it's great. let's take a look at the morning papers. "the washington post," cheney uncloaks his frustration with bush, says the statute of limitations has expired on many secrets. we'll talk about that with pat buchanan and mike barnicle. also in "the post" the fed starts a roll back of rescue efforts and plans to wind doubt purchases of government debt. >> let's look at the washington times. president obama's nominee for surgeon general has been working as an adviser to burger king.

fast food giant -- >> he's an indian as well. >> it says she promoted balanced diets. the photo on 0 the left shows obama awarding the medal of freedom. >> so that's not his health nominee? okay. >> oh, dear. >> "the wall street journal" is talking about how hollywood upstages beijing, the world trade organization hands china's biggest defeat in trade battle over a movie, book, and music deal. the photo that you see is also from yesterday's world cup qualifying match between the u.s. and mexico. mexico won 2-0 which now brings the united states record in mexico to 0-22-1. >> wow. >> not good. and mexico scored right at the end. seattle times, big crowds, bigger emotions. nearly 3,000 people turned out for congressman rick lar seven's town hall meeting in the town of everett. i mean, that is -- look at that. >> wow, it's huge and, again,

that's not ginned up. people are concerned. they care about this issue on both sides and they're going out. i think that's good for democracy. >> and then you have on the front page -- front page of "the new york times," thousands of people showing up for free dental care and free medical and vision services in englewood, california. i mean, it's a big issue. people will show up and talk about it. this is, of course, people who need medicare care. editor in chief of "the daily beat," tea no brown, will be with us.

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a beautiful shot of the white house. let's bring in right now the co-founder and editor in chief

of thedailybeat.com, tina brown. we're going to be asking you about hillary clinton in one minute. first mika wants to go to another story that a lot of people in washington are going to be talking about today. mika? >> front page of "the washington post," cheney uncloaks his frustration with george w. bush. apparently the statute of limitations has expired and he's talking. i go on to read inside the article that cheney now intimates that the former

president turned out to be more like an ordinary politician in the end. >> pat buchanan, i have criticized george bush for a lot of things, but i've got to say this is a guy unlike most politicians that didn't stare at the -- this sounds like an unfair attack against a president who told all of official washington and every foreign diplomat when the debate over the surge came, people like me go to hell. this is the right thing to do. we're not going to lose this war. i think cheney's attack on bush very unfair here because george bush stood by and fought for that surge when nobody else stood with him except for mccain. >> cheney believes a 1% chance nuclear weapon or something like that could be used, i think he feels george bush broke, if you will, on the issue of iran and north korea. he didn't authorize that israeli

strike and he didn't go on the offensive after 2006 and i think the final thing was scooter libby. he didn't let -- give scooter libby the pardon he needed, and i think cheney feels he moved with condi rice into a negotiating phase rather than what he did on 2003 when he launch the invasion. there was a new george bush and he moved away from dick cheney. >> mike barnicle, again, this is surprising that dick cheney is saying george w. bush was too soft, that george w. bush cared too much about what americans thought of him. say what you will about george w. bush but he was not guided by polls. he was guided by his inner beliefs whether you like him or not. >> that's true, joe. what pat said, i think it's easy for all of us on the outside of what was that inner circle of vice president cheney and president bush, it's easy for us to underestimate the growing

tension and increasingly ill will the president felt to the vice president over scooter libby because i think the vice president knows better than anyone that scooter libby and in the "post" story today said put his head into a meat grinder for president bush, vice president cheney, and dependent on your point of view covered up vice president cheney's role in that entire episode that resulted in scooter libby getting convicted. i think he's so resentful of scooter libby not getting the pardon that this is fueling part of what we're reading about today in "the post." >> you know what, let's talk, while we're on the subject of george w. bush, there was an election that took a long time to bring him back into office and hillary clinton talked about that still on her international tour and she's getting a lot of heat for this. i want you guys to listen to it.

i want your gut on it. i'm not sure it's necessarily that bat. here is hillary clinton again in the spotlight. >> our democracy is still evolving. we had all kinds of problems in some of our past elections, as you might remember. in 2000, our presidential election came down to one state where the brother of the man running for president was the governor of the state. so we have our problems, too. >> okay. you know, a fair assessment that we're always trying to reach perfection and we're not perfect as a country. >> come on. >> what? >> seriously? >> what is wrong? >> i'm going to ask for my friendship ring back. hillary clinton the past two days, the past three days, has jumped on a college student, and now she's trying to dredge up the 2000 recount. >> no, it was a great example how we're always trying to improve, that our system -- >> a great example about how

maybe hillary clinton should just come home and sleep for a while. >> pat? there is nothing wrong with what she said. >> what good is it bringing back 2000? because, you know what, we could debate for the next few hours about how that was an unfair assessment. >> no -- >> do we want to reopen those debates? >> that was an unfair assessment. there was a problem with the election, that perhaps we're not as perfect a process -- >> jeb bush rigged -- okay, you want to go there? let me show you why hillary clinton should not have done that. hillary clinton, the secretary of state of the united states of america, is overseas and she suggests that the governor of florida, jeb bush, rigged the election for george w. bush. i was there. that is an unfair slanderous assessment. do you really think it's a good thing for our -- no, she wasn't. she suggested that jeb bush, the brother of george w. bush, rigged the election in 2000? i'm not even upset about that. i'm upset that the secretary of

state would dredge up a 2000 election overseas suggesting somehow that we are a democracy. we have the same problems as you have here because look at us. we have -- that is such bs. >> we're going to pretend the 2000 election was a perfect example of our process? >> is that what you want the secretary of state to do when she's overseas? >> i just don't think it's that big a deal to say we are still striving for perfection and we're not there yet. >> let's get a republican secretary of state to go over next time and say, you know what, we've gone a long way in democracy but we still have a long way to go because you have armies here. well, guess what, the vice president of the united states, he tried his best to not count our military men and women's votes overseas and it makes me -- do you really want -- tina brown, what's wrong with my former, ex-girlfriend, hillary clinton?

shouldn't she just -- >> i'll tell you what's wrong with hillary is one week too long on this african hellish tour she's on. think of it from the human point of view. she is in her second week. she is hot. she is feeling fat. she has this horrible business where she sort of lost it over the whole bill thing. frankly, i want to get her home now. i want to get her home. i think otherwise by the time she his liberia she's going to be saying, what can i tell you? we have an idiot for the president r. she's just letting it hang out. she has to be -- we have to bring her home now. she did so well. she did so well. >> i will pay pat buchanan -- >> i can't believe we're on opposite sides. >> i will pay pat buchanan for a ticket to get her home because i want her to be my girlfriend again. >> you are totally overreacting to the statement. >> she's been amazing on this trip. she has been amazing on this trip. >> she's implying that our presidential politics are just like something in the eastern

congo. >> no, she's implying -- >> yes, she is, mika. >> no. >> she's gotten two soundbites here in the united states. one of them is that thing about channeling bill and this one is about trashing her own country. we're just a third world country. we're developing, too. >> listen, that is more about -- that says more about america than it does about hillary clinton, quite honestly. we like those soundbites. those are the ones we play. she's been saying plenty of other stuff. >> her own country abroad, sure you're going to play it. >> my god, if condoleezza rice had compared our election system, mike barnicle to a third world country, do you think the press would not be playing that clip as well? >> joe, i think it's time to get out that old bumper sticker that says bring the trooper home. >> bring her home and bring her home now. well, of course not because -- >> the president will send a special plane to get her out of it. >> she's been amazing. this is rotten because she has been amazing on this trip.

>> exactly. i'm sensing a little sexism. i'm sorry. >> she blew it with that comment. really. she really did. sitting there cutting loose with that comment and it has dominated the entire trip. that's all people are going to remember is the first comment but now we have a second one. >> our election system here is no more advanced than the election system -- yes, it is. >> still we confront problems. >> she is secretary of state of the united states. >> she is trying to -- >> has been flawless for six months as secretary of state. she's gone away -- >> chris, i can't hear when you're talking in my ear. tina, start again? >> hillary clinton has been flawless for the last six months as secretary of state. >> she has. >> she has been an absolute credit to her country and her restrainment, she has been amazi

amazing. she spent the whole of the last ten days touring some of the most harrowing scenes, bob in refugee camps in congo which has been about women being mutilated and raped and the most horrendous scenes of oppression women have ever seen. the fact is we are so obsessed and we're also obsessed with -- >> listen, tina, if you're a secretary of state, you need to be careful about what you say in front of cameras. i agree with you. she's done an extraordinary job as secretary of state. i have saluted her every step but take the microphone away. maybe bill -- >> she wants to get back to the gym. she does. >> did she just say that? tina? >> i didn't say that. i'm sucking bill clinton get on a plane on another mission of mercy, fly to africa. this is why we should bring her home now. relax, mika. >> he gets helicoptered in for the glamour moment. >> tina brown, stay with us, please.

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pedro gets fox swinging to end the first inning. he did get seven runs of support. here is raul ibanez. a three-run home run to left center. phillies up 11-1 at that point and then we give you more pedro. jeff baker swinging here. he threw 99 pitches, seven hits, three runs, a walk, struck out five. 215th career win. >> tina claimed at the beginning of the year the raul ibanez signing was the best free agent signing of the year. >> she was right. >> thank you for bringing that up. i can expound on that at length. >> here are your red sox. jason bay with a blast over the monster. they won, but so did the yankees. kevin youkilis suspended five games for that brawl. were you there? >> i was. i instigated it. >> as you do on this show. joe tells me the soccer match in mexico was a big deal yesterday. if mexico loses apparently they may not qualify for the world cup which would lead to anarchy

in the streets. that national meltdown is prevented with a goal late, 82nd minute. and then the huge crowd of 100,000 plus into a frenzy. the united states still winless in mexico. a big deal, right, joe scarborough? >> it is a big deal. this is becoming a heck of a rivalry not just because the united states and mexico but in america. this is a battle. we beat mexico a good bit up here but our record in mexico 0-22-1. so we can beat spain, the best team in the world this past summer but we still can't beat our next door neighbor when we go to mexico city. it was a heck of a game. heck of a match. by the way, willie, the english premier league starts. >> my husband is aggressive. >> i have to go downtown to

watch livermore win. >> rick pitino came out and spoke yesterday. we brought you the story about the sex scandal. he says he did not give $3,000 for the woman. he did give her $3,000 for what he thought was health insurance. he said i've done nothing illegal. an ethical lapse but nothing illegal. we'll stay on the story. >> is that what it is? ethical lapse? >> news you can't use, you do not want to miss this town hall moment. sheila jackson-lee, while a woman is pouring her heart out about health care, takes a phone call. we'll show you the video when we come back. bicycle, i've missed you. gathering dust, as pollen floats through the air. but with the strength of zyrtec ® , the fastest, 24-hour allergy relief, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. with zyrtec ® i can love the air ™ .

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all right, time for a little -- >> please tell me it's time, willie. >> it's time for some news you can't use, mika. pay attention because this is a good one. we've seen so much outrage at these town hall meetings, different senators and congress people do good and bad jobs handling it. arlen specter did a good job. claire mccaskill the same way. this is not the way i think you want to handle it. this is sheila jackson-lee from texas at a town hall meeting where a woman was at the microphone express iing her concerns about the health care reform. that's when sheila jackson-lee's phone blew up. >> you think it's good for america, then -- [ inaudible ] >> seriously, really, come on.

>> that was from youtube, a little editorial text. she took the call, chatted it up with her friend. republicans jumping on this. the spokesman for the national republican congressional committee said sheila jackson-lee might want to consider using that phone to call her shrink since she is disconne disconnected from reality. >> ouch. >> not good. >> can you believe somebody would take in the middle of a health care debate while a lady is talking pick up a phone call. >> didn't giuliani pick up a phone call? >> remember that. >> it was his wife. he put it down, said, honey, i can't talk right now. good lord. maybe she was making dinner reservations. >> it's a killer. this presidential medical of freedom. ted kennedy who couldn't be there, desmond tutu and billie jean king who has 39 grand slam

titles to her credit. here is how president obama laid out her status. >> after purchasing an $8 racket with money earned from chores, 11-year-old billie jean declared the goal to be the number one tennis player in the world. yet what we honor are not simply her 12 grand slam titles, 101 doubles titles and 67 singles titles -- pretty good, billie jean. >> so he says 12 grand slam titles. here is billie jean correcting the record afterwards. >> you didn't get any of my facts right. not even in the ballpark. >> this is adorable. in the president's defense, she won 12 singles grand slam titles. that may have been what he was referring to. he left out one word. >> we should praise the press

because this is the first time in his administration he's come in under the numbers. >> mike brings it on back. >> cheap shot. mike barnicle. all right, willie, thanks for nothing. painful. >> that sheila jackson-lee -- >> don't answer your phone. >> sheila jackson-lee -- she represents the houston district where the space center is. they were giving everybody a tour and they were talking about, explaining about mars, explorer or voyager or whatever it was that landed on mars and sheila jackson-lee asked did they find the flag that neal armstrong put there when he was there? >> okay. that's just -- >> mars moon is not that much different. >> i read it in "roll call" so it has to be true. >> is it the top of the hour?

>> it is the top of the hour t. >> willie, do you have more for us? >> e-mails are streaming in. >> we have some e-mails. >> i know it's going to be positive. >> chris, what have you got? >> guys, you have a great show with one huge issue, mika. she cannot hide her left liberal favoritism. joe, please coach her. please. >> you can't coach her. >> please coach me, joe. >> yeah. >> why should you channel joe scarborough? >> i am not going to channel joe. >> my god, there are about 5 billion people who would be better on this planet to channel than me, that's for sure. this hillary discussion -- >> we just see it differently. >> you see it differently from me and why is that? >> usually you're defending hillary and on both counts here i liked the first sound bite, i felt her pain and thought it was very real, the one about her husband, and the second one, all she's saying is that even in the best country in the world, there's imperfection and we're

always working to kind of make our system work better. and she was connecting with them. >> but she's the secretary of state of the united states of america and she has suggested, implied that just as the congo, they have a lot of coups in these various countries in africa, we had an election in 2000 and because the president -- because bush's brother was running the show, they, in effect, stole the election. she's the secretary of state. now if you want to get -- pat. >> no. they say al gore was cheated and robbed. fine. when you're the secretary of state representing the united states of america and say that abroad -- >> she didn't say al fwor was cheated be a robbed. she said we have problems. >> what was the problem she implied -- >> problems with the 2000 election. >> sure, but we argued that out in this country. >> that's her point. >> she's the secretary of state of the united states now. >> mike barnicle, where do you fall on this? >> it's called reality, people. >> i'm sort of familiar with

hard-working women who work themselves to the point of exhaustion and are surrounded by men who do dumb, stupid things when they're with the women or when they're away from the women. >> how is your wife? >> i am very familiar with what happens when people get sleep deprived, and i think that is what happened. i think she is sleep deprived. i think she's exhausted. i think the combination of being on the road just explodes. she said what she said and we should get over it with all due respect to pat. let's move on. >> i do think also in this youtube era the hazards of having to sustain something, as you say, for ten days with a camera in front of you, something is going to happen. everyone is waiting for it. all the cameras are there. she is overtired at this point. >> but let me just say, though, if you're secretary of state and i believe hillary clinton has done a wonderful job as

secretary of state and pat and i both agree she ran a remarkable campaign last year, because you know that we live in the youtube age, because you know that democrats took control of the senate in 2006 because george allen was caught saying something on youtube and that probably swung that election 2,000 votes and gave democrats -- that's why a secretary of state needs to be careful. now actually if hillary clinton is exhausted, then this is not an issue just with hillary clinton. this is an issue with her staff and it is time to -- if she's exhausted and i don't know if she is but let her get some sleep and protect our secretary of state. >> again, i just don't think what she said is such a big deal. >> i think she was just relating to the audience as you say. i think mika's right about that. she was relating to her audience and trying to sort of create a moment of empathy which went hideously awry when you're sitting here in america. >> and her point was even in the

united states of america we still have work to do. we still need to perfect our system. >> she didn't say that. >> that's what i thought. >> we stole the election. >> we are all grown-ups here, mika, and every one of us know that when she talks about a brother running a state that swung the election for a brother, that is implying a rigged election. >> joe -- >> if you're comfortable with our secretary of state saying that, fine, i am not. mike barnicle? >> joe, i think the saddest aspect of this is the rupture it has caused between hillary and you and pat. i want the three of you to be back together again. i saw you and pat throw down your friendship rings earlier today you've worn now for a year and a half. i want the three of you to be brought back together. >> and, mike barnicle, i said this last night on 0 twitter, let me say it again this morning. my favorite line in a movie from a river runs through it, please,

please, we can completely love without complete understanding. >> how do i not get this? >> i'm glad to hear you're twittering, joe. america needs it. >> yes. yes, we can. >> america does. >> yes, we do. we can completely love without complete understanding. hillary, this is the age much of the extended hand. >> i can't help myself, stomach, stop. it's ridiculous. it is time now for a look at today's top stories. after months of dire warnings the federal reserve is offering its first upbeat assessment of the american economy since the financial crisis took hold. they're keeping interest rates near zero as expected. policymakers say economic activity is leveling out and the fed is preparing to wind down emergency programs used to stimulate growth. it is welcome news to investors who pushed markets higher across the board yesterday. >> hey, mike barnicle, why are we hearing one thing from people that actually invest and have a lot of money and are going to

turn this economy around and ben bernanke? why do people who know -- why do they tell us that we're headed for a cliff and bernanke and the government singing happy days are here again? >> you know, maybe we're surrounded by people, none of whom can agree on exactly what's happening. you had elizabeth warren on yesterday, sort of an economic dip we're going through. you have some people saying it's a v-curve. you know the people i talk to indicate that they think the recession is a bathtub shaped recession. it's a long, slow slide and we're about the middle, halfway a through the bathtub and we'll start coming up the other side of the drain maybe in a year, a year and a half from now and i don't think there's any commonality among all of these economists and politicians who talk about the economy. i also think most of the politicians we hear on this program and in panels before congress are basically economic

el illiterates who know no more than i do and i'm an economic illitera illiterate. >> thank you. the scottish government is considering an early prison release of a former libyan agent convicted in the 1988 lockerbie bombing. an attorney says the 5-year-old has terminal prostate cancer and the release would come on compassionate grounds. >> and, by the way, chris was just asking me in my ear whether this story enrages me. this guy obviously was working for gadhafi. we have struck a deal with gadhafi over the past couple of years. gadhafi was willing to turn over his information on this wmd program. and so a lot of people might think this thing just doesn't make any sense. if i remember the family, i'd want there guy executed, a family of someone who died, i'd want him executed. that being said, the back story to this is gadhafi has made amends to the u.s. government

and so i suspect this is a part of that. >> i have a friend whose daughter was on that plane, i grew up with. i thought that is about the most horrible act -- frankly, how do you go over there as a diplomat? i know you have to do these things. how do you go over and shake hands with a man who slaughtered all these school kids? >> yeah. and chris said a lot of people from syracuse were on that plane. mike barnicle, you know people as well. >> i have a friend of mine, a boston police officer, who lost his only daughter on that plane and i'm sure he would sit here today and tell you as i'm telling you, let that man die in jail. he got the break, the gift of life for so many years after that man's daughter was killed along with all those other students were killed. >> unbelievable. we'll move on now. more town halls are scheduled today following the latest flare-ups around the country. although senator byron dorgan was talking health care, the suggestion was largely drowned out. take a look. >> we do not have the best

health care system in the world. we have -- we have the -- [ audience boos ] >> let me ask this. look, i'm here because i want to be here. you're here, you want to be here. let's at least treat people with respect. don't boo her. >> you know -- i'm sorry, go ahead. >> again, the town halls are for good conversations. is that a bad thing these people are coming and expressing their concern? >> i will say what i said at the top of the hour when you had senator grassley, talking death panels again. this is good for democrats. a democrat like byron dorgan who sat there and looks like he's above it all. when you had arlen specter being screamed at, the still photo. good for arlen specter in his democratic primary. you want some conflict. you can rise above it and it makes you look like a statesman.

all right. the white house is suggesting the term loyal is more of a media show than a legitimate debate. this is robert gibbs. take a look. >> i think some of you were disaponted yesterday the president didn't get yelled at. i think there was disappointment because a bunch of your stories had more to do with the fact the sideshow on each side of the street outside than what was actually going on inside. of the town hall. i doubt we're seeing a representative series of any town hall meetings despite the food fight on cable every day. >> i don't think you can make up those crowds. >> not only that, you can't make up the numbers. he makes it sound like this is all ginned up. you look at the crowds, thousands of people coming out in the middle of august to town hall meetings. no, this is real and robert knows it and everybody at the white house knows it. >> can i say something? >> let pat talk and then we'll go to you. >> arlen specter when he stood up there and let the guy get in his face and responded to him, when politicians under fire

handle it like dorgan did, they are helping themselves. and booing people, there's nothing wrong with it. who hasn't been booed? >> pat buchanan, we are booed every time we talk in front of a crowd. tina brown, what do you think? >> i think, joe, you're right, this is all good for democrats but i also do think powerful and sort of disturbing as all this stuff is in these town halls actually a more powerful image was the image today on the cover of "the new york times" of thousands of people in englewood, california, showing up at this forum to get free health care and it really does look like the third world. this looks like americans in the 21st century in this free democracy lining up to get health care, to get the dental work, to get extractions because they have not been able to afford their health care or because their own existing coverage doesn't cover dental

work. it's just incredible to me and i think it speaks more powerfully than these town halls. >> well, no, it certainly is an incredibly personal issue and maybe they're taking a little off by surprise at the reaction these crowds coming to the white house. >> we have new polls that have come in we're going to show them how the health care numbers have shifted over the past week, if at all, and also a breakdown of democrats, independents and republicans, whether they support or oppose the plan. it's pretty revealing. >> a lot more ahead. dick cheney in the news again. the daily beat's tina brown, thank you for being with us. >> it was exciting, tina. >> i never got to ask her -- >> a good site today. a great michael jackson piece again and a terrific piece by matthew iglesias about why we should get out of afghanistan once and for all. >> i'm still processing your assessment of hillary clinton, tina. we'll talk about that. coming up later, democratic strategist bob shrum. also "the new york times" game

collins, looking at health care town halls and how they've become a loaded subject. locked and loaded. coming up in a few minutes msnbc political analyst harold ford jr. and savannah guthrie, diva. plus, nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. but first, we'll find out what's making news this morning at the white house with chuck todd. bicycle, i've missed you. gathering dust, as pollen floats through the air. but with the strength of zyrtec ® , the fastest, 24-hour allergy relief, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. with zyrtec ® i can love the air ™ .

why on earth when it took the president -- here's my point -- six months to decide on a dog and a name are we doing this in a matter of weeks and months? >> all right. chris, let's go to some e-mails that we've been receiving and i think these e-mails make my

point perfectly about whether hillary should have opened the scab that is the 2000 election. >> the e-mails look like we're back in 2000. joe, the election was stolen in florida and again in ohio. don't try to rewrite history. who was the governor when the election was stolen? i rest my case. and then mika is just getting killed. i can't even read some of the ones -- mika is so liberal. >> this is my point, mika, when before i started waving my arms wildly, is don't rip a scab off of something like election 2000 or impeachment when you're overseas because i've been looking at my twitter, e-mails, and people are refighting the 2000 election. i just think a secretary of state should not do that. that's what i was saying to you when you were defending it. okay, great, let's go there because you can't say -- >> i think it's an overreaction.

that's all she's saying is our process isn't perfect and even in -- >> see, mika, you're saying that because she accused jeb bush of helping george bush steal the election. >> the fact that people think that the election was stolen still to this day means that our process isn't perfect. >> no, mika, it is the fact that people that were on that side in 2000, the fact that people -- you know, people that wanted al gore to win the election think the election was stolen. people that wanted george w. bush to be elected think the election wasn't stolen. it's a 50/50 split in america. >> and that's a sign that even we can improve our process. >> i can't help you if you don't understand why that is not a thing for a secretary of state -- a can of worms for a secretary of state to open up on foreign soil, i cannot help you. but you know what i can do? >> what can you do? >> i can completely love those that i don't completely understand and you are on the

top of that list. >> great. >> seriously, though, we can agree without disagreeing but don't we have enough fighting over health care without dredging up the 2000 election? >> okay, real quick, pat. >> how does it help her trip? she's got two soundbites out of this entire trip which was planned good things for america. good for her. good for our country. >> she's done great things but you have these two soundbites are the whole story of the trip. >> i know. again -- >> let's bring in chuck todd. maybe he'll take your side. >> reporter: it was buchanan who messed up the election. it was all pat's fault. in all honesty, look, i think the point she was trying to make is, hey, guess what, we still don't agree on what happened in 2000 and we're a stable democracy. she's going over to africa, a place that is still struggling

with how to pick governments and she's trying to make -- maybe the point got lost in translation over here. in all honesty -- >> chuck, chuck, agnostic on this, chuck, if she were agnostic and said we had problems in 2000. that's one thing but if she says, hey, we have a brother who's running a state that swung the election to george w. bush, his brother, that was not being down the middle. that was editorializing. >>. >> reporter: my point is, it's shocking. hillary clinton's a democrat. is this breaking news? so hillary clinton is on that side. but the other point that she's trying to make to folks over there is, guess what, we're still a stable country. we still have a peaceful transfer of power. if that is the point she was trying to get across. she may have done it ineloquently but in all hohn 0e0 e honesty, that's the message. i've seen democrats do this

talking about fledgling democracy overseas. >> let's move past the 2000 election and not bring up impeachment or watergate. >> reporter: let's talk about medicare from 1965. we can refight that. >> i hear it's socialism. it will never work. so let's talk, though, about chuck grassley. he brought up the death panel yesterday. >> reporter: yeah, sort of. >> wait a minute. >> reporter: look, he sort of did. he didn't talk about the house bill and then our friends over at one of these websites decided to say look what he did. look what he did. even the white house doesn't believe he did that. i know that they -- >> chuck, let's play it. chuck, let's play it. he's talking about pulling the plug on granny. that's tough. of course grandpa collapse but nobody else did. take a listen to this clip,

chuck, and you decide. >> the house bill there's counseling for end of life. and from that standpoint, you have every right to fear. you shouldn't have counseling at the end of life. you ought to have counseling 20 years before you're going to die. we should not have a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on grandma. >> chuck todd -- >> he's read iing it. >> chuck todd, he is reading a statement and in the statement chuck grassley is reading he talks about the house bill. he talks about how you have every right to fear these death panels and then goes on to say -- >> reporter: he didn't say you have every right to fear the death panels. hold on. look, i'm not -- the fact is -- >> chuck, ex playboy it again. chuck, hold on. stop, chuck. let's play the clip again. >> reporter: you're playing to the fear. i don't want to be defending. >> chuck -- >> some fear because in the house bill there's counseling for end of life.

and from that standpoint you have every right to fear. you shouldn't have counseling at the end of life. you ought to have counseling 20 years before you're going to die. we should not have a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on grandma. >> we should not have a government program that determines that we can pull the plug on grandma. that is suggesting that the house bill sets up a government program that pulls the plug on granny. >> reporter: correct. he's clearly playing to the fear, playing to his base, and there's a huge conservative base in iowa. what i was saying was compared to how others have irresponsibly talked about this issue, he at least is is using the word counseling. he is at least trying to get it a little bit closer to reality. i'm not saying he isn't playing to the fear. to what he's doing and trying to play to those folks but at the same time at least he's gotten closer to what --

>> buchanan? is chuck todd -- chuck todd's working for grassley now. he's got a grassley 2010 button on. you're spinning for him, baby. >> reporter: joe, i'm not spinning anything. i'm trying to look at what's in front of me. in fact, this is what sort of makes us all crazy these days is just because you look at something and you say, okay, this is what he's talking about, it doesn't mean you're taking one side or the other. >> chuck, i was actually joking with you. >> reporter: i know, i know. but it's not you and me. it's not you and me it's the way our viewers, the way your viewers are going to interpret this today. they're going to interpret it in a completely more irspobsably than even what grassley was playing to as far as that sound bite was. >> have a sip of your decaf coffee and remember what they say, a river runs through it. >> he said you have every right to fear. that's one of the statements of grassley. later on, we should not have a

government program that suggests you pull the plug on grandma. he got that out there. it looks like he's saying your fears, your apprehensions are legitimate and we don't want a program like that that would pull the plug on grandma. the guy said, holy smoke, is that what they're talking about? >> chuck, with all this noise going on, i want to show you a poll coming out -- i think it was yesterday and, first of all, we're going to show you the overall approval of president obama and how he's handling health care. 43% of americans agree with how president obama is -- okay, that's not the one i asked for but we'll go this way first. democrats, 77% of them -- t.j., stay with me, brother. which one would you like to put up? thank you. 77% of democrats support what the president is doing on health

care. 35% of independents do. that number dropping by the day. 10% of republicans, 100% of americans think t.j. is the worst director on the planet. now show the overall approval rating for the president, if you have it in you, it. j. there we go. >> perfect. >> approve 43%. disapprove 49%. chuck, my point is those numbers are unmoved in the last two weeks. the president's upside-down but he's no worse than he was when it all began. >> reporter: the glass half full is just that. maybe robert gibbs is right. we're focusing on the craziness taking place in these town halls and the politicians that are playing to the bases that are showing up to town halls when you're not getting a representative sample of actual people in the middle who show up and we're seeing the numbers haven't moved and there's another cross tab in there you might put up on independents.

more than a third have said these debates have made no difference in how they view this. >> let's show the poll, chuck. thank you for bringing it up. let's show the poll. have the protesters made you more or less sympathetic to their views? 21% less sympathetic. 36% no different. a little bit more americans are more sympathetic to the views. it is split a third, a third, a third. >> reporter: independents, a third say they're independents but they're really republican and a third are democrats. >> and of course a third of the independents that say they're independent that are really democrats, they work in the news of the. >> stop. thank you. >> there you go. yeah, i'm a big democrat.

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welcome back to "morning joe." a public cape will be held on cape cod for eunice kennedy shriver, the sister of president john f. kennedy. she died on tuesday after suffering a series of strokes. andrea mitchell is at the church in massachusetts. good morning, andrea. good to see you this morning. >> good morning, willie. good to see you. a very rainy day here but it won't dampen the spirits of those sem britting and mourning y eunice kennedy shriver. >> we know so much about her famous brothers, jack, bobby, teddy. tell us a little bit more about the life and what will be the legacy of eunice. >> well, she began her life, as you can imagine, given her

gender and the years in what was a prescribeded way and she so broke out of all the stereotypes of what a woman could achieve. she was, of course, wife of sergeant shriver and mother of the five children, maria shriver, tim, mark, and the others but she did so much because she was responding to the suffering she saw with her sister rosemary who was mildly challenged mentally but then through the ignorance of the period was lobotomized by her parents, her father, and she saw how rosemary responded to physical exercise, to tennis, and that inspired her, in turn, to the special olympics, what became the special olympics. we were talking about in 2007 in shanghai 80,000 people in a stadium with president hu jintao and eunice shriver had started all of that. tim shriver is carrying that legacy on. now in later years, of course,

the suffering of her husband, we remember from the 1970s to the vice presidential race when he ran with president mcgovern when he ran for president and also the founding of the peace corps, the first peace corps director and in later years alzheimer's so maria shriver has become a really passionate spokeswoman for what her father has gone through. >> and, andrea, i have mike barnicle with us. mike, i foe you're heading up for the wake. what will you be thinking about this afternoon? >> well, i mean, eunice shriver w led an exemplary life. she was competitive. she always challenged people to do better than they thought they could do and as andrea pointed out, that led to the foundation of the special olympics and i think anyone who has ever witnessed the special olympics or any participants in the special olympics would realize what is a tremendous accomplishment this was for eunice shriver and she almost single-handedly, i think, more than anyone else was responsible

for taking the word retarded which was commonly used in the '50s and '60s out of the english language. >> yeah. mike barnicle, thanks. go ahead, andrea. >> i was just going to say, mike, mike knows this family better than any of us and knows what they've gone through and you just have to think for teddy kennedy, who was honored by the president yesterday with the medal of freedom, this is such a difficult time but eunice's life is certain to be celebrated. >> all right. andrea mitchell, thanks so much. we'll be checking back with you throughout the day on msnbc. thanks, andrea. joe and mika now down in washington. guys? all right. thank you, willie. with us now msnbc political analyst and chairman much of the democratic leadership council, harold ford jr., professor. thank you for coming onboard this morning. >> thanks for coming, professor. >> one of the things that's generated a lot of debate this morning that is been yet another controversial -- >> are you getting a lot of hate e-mails? >> twitters. >> i'm getting hate twitter and hate e-mail. >> i am, too.

wait a minute. >> both sides. >> it's hillary clinton's comments in africa about the 2000 election, we should play it again because i think it's been a while and we should let our viewers walk through this with us. here is hillary clinton. >> our democracy is still evolving. we had all kinds of problems in some of our past elections, as you might remember. in 2000 our presidential election came down to one state where the brother of the man running for president was the governor of the state. so we have our problems, too. >> okay, harold, chime in. pat and i have been disagreeing on whether or not the secretary of state should have gone there. i just thought she was actually kind of relating with the people she was speaking to. >> look, i didn't hear the whole speech. the context of it we've had a share of voting irregularities. >> we're not perfect. >> nothing like what we've seen in that country, for that matter, in big parts of the continent. to try to relate and say, look,

as you all work towards evolving and improving and progress in many ways, you should know that you have allies in this. we're way ahead but you should know we face our challenges as well. >> pat? >> well, it seemed to me she was saying, in effect, the president of the united states, george bush, probably won that election because his brother was governor of the state that decided it, in effect, they stole it. i mean, this, to me -- >> but, pat, the election is over. the president serveded for eight years. people may share that but i don't -- >> but should the secretary of state make a point like that in a foreign country to say, in he can, we're pretty much like you folks, we have these problems and of course in africa as you suggest, the killings -- >> pat, she wasn't intimating we are like you. she was saying even in the united states -- even in the united states of america, we still struggle. >> why does the secretary of state say, in effect, it was a suspect election because the brother of the president controlled the state that decided the election? when you're secretary of state of the united states in a

foreign country. >> appearances matter and i think that a case could be made about the appearance there. i accept that the election of george bush, the court weighed in as it did and the court speaks. they're the final arbiter. >> be a my point, mika, to you earlier was that this is such a divisive topic -- >> clearly. >> if you look at your e-mails and twitters and mine it shows how divisive it is. harold and i, we try not to bring up impeachment, the government shutdown, the 2000 election because, yes, i have strong feelings on one side. harold has strong feelings on another but as harold said, it's been decided. let's not fight it again. >> she's not fighting it again. >> okay. >> is she? or was she just saying -- >> she is suggesting that george w. bush was elected because his brother ran florida.

that in and of itself is a divisive comment that as secretary of state i believe should not make. that is my belief. >> it is a slur on the united states of america. >> i wouldn't go quite that far. i think there's middle ground. maybe those words -- the mentioning of his brother and the governor -- but i think the larger point is the one that is one i'm sure the nigerians appreciated, those around the globe working on creating a much better democracy and a much better voting system. >> there are a lot of conservatives, though, that will occur her of what they've accused president obama of doing and that is trying to paint a moral equivalency between the united states and other countries where conservatives and some independents don't think that exists. we've got interesting polls i want harold to talk about. >> harold ford, stay with us. up next, "morning joe" has an exclusive first look at the new cover of "time" magazine.

managing editor rick stengel will be here. when i was seventeen

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while nothing can reverse copd, advair is different from most other medications because it contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help you breathe better. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advr may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking advair. we had a great day, grandpa! we sure did. ask your doctor how advair helps improve lung function for better breathing. (announcer) find out how to get your first full prescription free at advaircopd.com. with us now "time" magazine's managing editor rick stengel here to unveil this week's new cover and of course

through the decades "time" magazine has had so many iconic cover stories, neil armstrong walking on the moon, richard nixon resigning, going back to fdr. willie geist says, i haven't seen it but willie geist says this week's "time" magazine cover may be the greatest ever. >> i will not -- i will let willie make that claim. i won't make that claim. it's a terrific story about what's going on in a part of the country representative of a whole rest of the country. less vegas. the great joel stein went there like hunter thompson did many years ago and wrote a piece about what's going on there. the poster child for the excesses of the housing boom and then took a big bet on that and lost. they have the highest foreclosure rate in the country and now they're making a big bet

on coming back. it's a fantastic, fun story into the heart of the american we sa cover. >> willie geist has been for years doing investigative reports behind the scenes, gritty, gumshoe human interest stories, and he's gone where few reporters have gone. willie, i turn this interview over to you. >> up close and personal. >> very close. some of us still believe in the promise of the american dream and that lives right there in las vegas. most of that dream takes place between the hours of 2:00 a.m. and 7:00 a.m., i would submit to you. but rick, this is, as you said, a story about america. tell us about what's happening with the housing market there. >> we were just talking about that among ourselves. joel goes on a trip with a real estate broker around to different houses in las vegas. there is a big scam going on in las vegas -- it's going on in other parts of the country, too, like florida -- if you buy a house for $500,000 and now it is underwater and has much less value, the the real estate

broker will take to you another house, in another neighborhood, it costs $250,000. you guy it with these new mortgages they're giving. you default on the new loan. this is happening all over las vegas. >> if you go off the strip there is subdivision after subdivision just teeming with these empty houses. >> and empty houses that for the most part have been trashed by their owners, people who either defaulted, couldn't pay their mortgage. one of the problems they're having there, this epidemic of pets in these houses. people leave their pets in there. at the same time this is not a down story, because las vegas is also gambling on coming back. all of the big, high-rollers in las vegas say, you know what? this is what americans want, the city's going to come back. even though lots of housing starts have stopped, they're starting up again. it is both a happy and a sad story at the same time. >> you know what's interesting about the piece as you describe it, is it that when you're in

"less vegas" and you have defaulted on a $500,000 home and you are now in the $250,000 home, you don't worry about your credit rating? because you're surrounded by so many people similar to you? >> well, you've just bought the house. you bought the house that you're going to live in so they don't really care. i mean the culture of las vegas is probably different than many other places. people are gamblers by instinct. i think they're feeling like, you know what? this is a good bet and i'll ride this bet for a while. i don't have all the gambling terminology down. >> these are people that willie -- i mean he's a journalist first and foremost, he stayed up many, many, many nights in las vegas researching this. >> it does keep me up at night. i'll be there in a couple weeks to help that city rebuild. i got to ask you about the woodstock piece. 40-year anniversary. as someone not of the baby boomer generation, if i hear about woodstock again i'm going to shoot myself.

that's the theme of the piece about woodstock. >> he also had the misfortune of not being born at the time of woodstock. i myself was a mere lad. i don't make a fetish about it either. but part of it is that he says all of these non-baby boomers, post-baby boomers, like enough about woodstock, already. i'm sick of hearing about it. you baby boomers use it as this kind of fetish that the world that has passed that we idealize and in fact it is not much more than a pretty good concert. >> it was a great concert, i'll give you that. pat buchanan was there. he was performing. >> as a musician, you grew up -- for me it was funny because i'm a conservative but i am also a musician. i looked on woodstock as just an extraordinary event, but it wasn't a music festival. it turned into a cultural event. it really was a lot of people believe that was the end of the '60s. >> it was all drugs and booze in

the mud. >> those of us in the nixon white house, we looked about it as, frankly, just a joke at the time. a huge joke. i it maybe a big cultural event now. >> that's inside the nixon white house! but it was pretty big at the time. all these guys didn't make it there, they were falling off the road, it was nuts! it was unbelievable! >> yeah. what was the highlight? was it richie valent or the who? >> one of the highlights, i can remember seeing pictures of pat and jimi hendrix taken together up there. >> jimi hendrix also just electrifying there. >> but this is the 40th anniversary. it is a big deal. >> it is a big deal. >> to some of us. >> absolutely. >> pat buchanan, aldermen alege

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welcome back to "morning joe." let's grp around the country. shall we? i can sound like a radio shock jock. live look at l.a. for you. vegas now, which is shocking if you talk about willie's ongoing affair. and savannah. >> let's go to washington, d.c. right now. where do we wrap it up, mika?

>> right in new york city where willie geist and mike barnicle are standing by. we of course are in washington. good morning, everyone. top of the hour. a lot going on today. a heated debate on the set. >> yes, it's great to have everybody here with us for "morning joe." mika brzezinski and joe here. i want to read really quickly an e-mail from mark mclaughlin. mark and his wife came up, visited us. the one friend i have in the world. he said my 40-year-old son came in my room last hour and saw me watching you and mika debating and asked, why do adults fight? also harold ford jr., pat buchanan and the diva of all divas. >> oh, lord. >> you demanded this position. >> according to the terms of my contract, this is the seat i'm supposed to have. >> and you always talk first accord the to the terms of the

contract, and last. >> that's important. >> we're going to show some polls. i want to get harold's response. there's a poll out that talks about how all these protests have moved people in the health care debate and we want to get harold's response as well as everybody's around the table. mike barnicle and -- of course willie geist will provide us the insight. >> she's smiling. >> we were going to talk about the piece until hillary clinton brought up the 2000 election. first we're going to go to news with mika brzezinski. >> thanks. >>. i got it. >> you think barnicle is going to have to retract his position that hillary may have done that because she's woman and she got tired? >> i think i don't know. i'm still wondering if it's barnicle who needs to retract or tina brown saying she needs to

go back to the gym or fix her hair. >> barnicle quoting the bible and calling women the weaker vessel. i just don't know if that's what you should be doing on national tv. >> savannah, if a man said something a little bit controversial, do you think anybody here or anywhere else would say he needs to go to the gym and he's having a bad hair day? >> i'm sorry, i'm 100% with mika on this. this is ridiculous. >> i feel badly now. all right, we'll do the news. are you strong enough to do it? you're not barnicle -- i don't think she's tired. >> gail's ready to go. but i'm sticking with my story about the secretary of state. it has nothing do with the fact that she is a woman. she was exhausted. she's been on the road for ten days, she's exhausted. i'd be exhausted. >> i can tell ann has already e-mailed him. so go ahead. >> thanks. >> you know what women are like when they -- go ahead.

> i'm scrambling for barnicle. i can't believe he said that last hour. >> should i just go make an omelet for you? >> i don't even know where this is coming from. direct it toward barnicle, not me. all right. more town halls are scheduled today following the latest flare-ups around the country. although senator byron dorgan was in north carolina to discuss health care, the discussion was largely drowned out. >> we do not have the best health care system in the world. we have -- >> let me ask this. i'm here because i want to be here. you are here you want to be here. let's at least treat people with

respect. don't boo her. >> all right, well those reactions appear increasingly common. the white house is suggesting the turmoil is more a media sideshow than a legitimate debate. >> i think some of you were disappointed yesterday the president didn't get yelled at. i think there was some disappointment because a bunch of your stories have more to do with the fact of the sideshow on each side of the street outside than what was actually going on inside of the town hall. i doubt we're seeing a representative sample of any series of town hall meetings despite the food fight on cable every day. >> there are reports the scottish government is considering an early prison release of a former libyan agent convicted in the deadly 1988 lockerbie bombing that killed 270 people. an attorney says 57-year-old has terminal prostate cancer and the release would come on compassionate grounds. scottish officials say no decision has been made yet.

as he prepares his memoirs, former vice president dick cheney is expressing frustration and disappointment with former president george w. bush. according to this morning's "post," cheney suggested bush has been moving away from him in the second term vowing to criticism and hardening against his advice. >> right now, i'm very excited to have columnist for "the new york times," gail collins. she discusses a cultural rift being revealed by the town hall protestors, "thanks to the health care protests over the past week --" this is critical here. because a lot of people say we haven't come together. gail actually points out we have. we've come to a fragile consensus on a few critical issues. for instance, government-run death panels -- not good. and nazis -- nobody likes them. interestingly, we do not have any agreement at all on the question of whether it is a good plan to bring a gun to a gathering of angry overwrought

people. to be honest, i thought we might be able to nail this one down. >> love her. that is so funny. >> gail, it is great to have you back. let's talk about what's happened over the past week and even this morning, we showed a clip of chuck grassley, charles grassley, yesterday warning people in iowa about the federal government creating programs that will pull the plug from granny. are you surprised that these death panel stories are still moving forward this late in the game? >> i am. it's clearly among the republicans some kind of push-back among republicans who came out early on and said, no, this is silly, don't do it. there seems to be some kind of a thing happening. i'm presuming they're responding to that. but it is very, very strange. >> yeah, it is strange. tell us about your column this morning. you are talking about the fact you're surprised that we allow people to carry guns to protests

where obviously there are, as you say, a lot of overwrought people. >> really, really overwrought. it's very interesting with the gun thing, i've felt more and more that this is one we should be able to work out, that there should be a middle ground there. clearly most americans think that you should not only be able to hunt but you should be able to have guns in your house to protect you, or whatever. but i think we've got the majority on the side of don't take a gun into a place where everyone is screaming at each other and making threats about how god's going to damn you to hell. it is not a really good plan at all. >> i want to show you a poll that is out right now. i want to get everybody's response to it. this is a poll that was taken asked whether americans sympathize more with the protestors or less with the protestors. if we can put that up right now. protestors make you more or less sympathetic to their views?

more sympathetic, 34%. less sympathetic 21%. no difference, 36%. savannah guthrie, the white house might be surprised at those numbers. >> as much as democrats, not just the white house want to portray these protestors as fringe or extremists, the danger is this anger becomes the enduring image of health care reform. people would maybe see the overwroughtness of some people, but then take it and make it their own. wait a minute, what are they so upset about? they might think there are a lot of people who have thought about it and have serious reservations. this is people turning on the tv, living their lives. the loudness, the vitriol, i think it is interesting that as many people say that it's made them more sympathetic over the fight against health care reform. >> we've seen the more extreme images broadcast in tv news, and yet by a 3-2 margin -- i would think that would turn off middle

america by 3-2 margin, americans are more sympatheticic to the protestors. >> despite they've been demonized as a mob, conspiracy,er that un-american. middle americans see them as fellow middle americans. they agree with them. this is totally unlike the '60s where the anti-war demonstrators when they really got vocal and sometimes violent, the whole country was against them. but middle americans see these protestors as us. >> harold ford? >> let's put it in perspective. this is not an overwhelming vote for protestors and against those who are for this health care package. number two, i think you said it best at the beginning of the show -- jobs, jobs, jobs is the stress of the economic hardship facing every day middle class families. barnicle made this point earlier, too, it is probably playing as big a role as anything. i think at this point it might be useful for the white house, between now and labor day, if i were advising them, to maybe bring boehner, to bring mccobble, to bring baucus, grassley, and even majority

leader reed and pelosi back to the white house to meet, say let's all call for a calming down here. i think when the next poll is done, nobody's going to support guns being brought. we had a gun brought in my home district of memphis, the congressman representing the district had to have the police escort the gentleman out. >> pat buchanan brags on the fact that everybody on his stage in '96 were locked and loaded. mike barnicle, let's not talk about buchanan and guns, let's talk about this poll. >> one of the hurdles for the white house in terms of getting health care legislation, reform, whatever they want to call it, passed this year, we have this most polished, most articulate man as president of the united states, and it has now come down to the dog days of august where he has to stand up in front of tv cameras and assure americans that, quote, unquote, there is no death panel contained in this legislation. we're not going to pull the plug on grandma. that seems to be a semantic

problem that has confronted the administration in terms of getting health care legislation passed. a lot of people out there are wondering what's in this bill. >> mika, gail collins and i were on a panel talking, i was talking about my book, she was talking about her extraordinary book on women. we also had a couple other people there. sort of disturbing book. but that's another story. but she would be a perfect person to weigh in on the hillary clinton -- >> we'll play it. chris, do you have the sound bite that we can play, hillary clinton and nigeria, i believe it is? talking about some imperfections in our democratic process as she's trying to relate with people of the country. take a listen. >> democracy is still evolving. we had all kinds of problems in some of our past elections, as you might remember. in 2 chow, our presidential election came down to one state where the brother of the man running for president was the

governor of the state. so we have our problems, too. >> gail, as the author of the book "america's women," how do you think hillary clinton is doing this week, given the two controversial sound bites that everyone's been talking about? >> it's never your best week when there's the two controversial sound bites that everybody's talking about, no matter what you're doing. that is not your best week. judith warner has i think a really great piece in the "times" today about this whole hillary saga. she goes to africa, she said when she became secretary of state this is for the first time we're really going to look at women's issues which are absolutely completely central to whatever is happening in the developing the third world. she gets over there and nobody wants to talk about anything but her husband and you're in a country where mass rapes have been going on for years now, and all these horrible things have been happening. you are exhausted, i admit.

this stuff happens. it's still not utterly desirable, i would think. >> but gail, you wrote more articulately than anybody else in the 2008 election. unique challenges that women face. i would agree with you that women face a greater challenge in the public spotlight than any other demographic group. do you think hillary once again is being treated differently by a different standard because she is a woman? >> yeah, partly. it's also that from the very beginning of her career and her story, the complication of being married to the biggest political story has always been there. everything that she's done. so the interesting thing about the presidential campaign when she did feel was she got passed new hampshire that she moved on past that. and it really was her story now. but it must be frustrating for her. i don't think she was

frustrated. they did such a great job with korea. but wherever she goes that she is still getting this, well through your mouth what does your husband think is a really insulting thing to say even if it was a mistranslation. >> it is. >> i think also to add to what gail was saying, it is not just that she hae a woman, what you were saying, but that she's a clinton and there is a lot that comes with that. but since the conversation we've been having today, it seems like everyone's talking about her tired, her hair, she needs to go to the gym. it just seems ridiculous. the comments don't generate that critique. >> let's forget the two sound bites. would you agree with me -- >> i'm a conservative, you're a conservative. would you agree with me that hillary clinton has done a very good job as secretary of state over the past six months? >> i think it's outstanding job and i also think she disabused of us of this notion that she couldn't separate herself from her husband, that she couldn't work with obama, she'd be too competitive. think she's handled herself

excellently as our articulator of american foreign policy. it's very sad that this happened because this is a good idea that they had to put a focus on the problem in africa. >> everybody agrees, good job secretary of state? >> you know i'm not supposed to give an opinion. i think she's been a competent secretary of state and -- >> harold ford, savannah guthrie said she may have been the greatest secretary of state we've ever had. >> i would echo savannah. she can channel through me. >> mike barnicle, you agree, hillary clinton may be the thomas jefferson of the 21st century? hillary goes to paris? >> yesterday i was with jack welch. all he could talk about was savannah guthrie. he wanted to know everything about her. >> nobody believes this! >> what's wrong with barnicle? seriously. i'm going to end this with gail collins.

gail, do you think we should pass a law that stops people from being able to bring guns o to -- i think we should have a national consensus that this is a really, really bad plan. >> bringing us together once again. coming up in a few minutes, democratic strategist bob shrum. also this hour, new economic data on monthly retail sales and weekly jobs numbers. the latest from cnbc's erin burnett. but first, money party. dylan ratican. oh, lord. getting tired. is he dancing? you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar,

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this government is out of control. we are in debt up to our eyeballs and you all are doing nothing but putting more debt on us and our children, and it's got to stop! what are you going to do about it? >> wow. >> yeah. >> wow. >> okay. >> they got into dylan ratican's supply. wow! >> nobody gets into dylan's supply. >> that's in maryland. >> there's more where that came from. wow. that's interesting. let's bring in right now -- this is exciting -- the host of msnbc's "morning meeting." dylan ratican. since we know that we're only going to get one question in, let's make this one count.

>> choose wisely, scarborough. choose wisely. >> there is a disconnect between what we hear from bernanke and what we hear from people with money that are going to have to get back in the game before this economy turns around. they say we're headed for mother cliff. bernanke says things are getting better. who's telling the truth? >> both. remember, the reality is, again, we took all that risk from last fall, all these different loans, commercial real estate loans. you had elizabeth warren on with you guys yesterday, i guess. that risk went to the taxpayer. basically the taxpayer and the u.s. government have absorbed the riskiest assets from the banks, for that matter for the cars, all the rest of it. right? and have left a healthier system, a healthier financial system, potentially healthier auto sector over the next few years. that's why we did this. that's why you feel like people are talking out of both sides. on one hand you have a strengthening economy, you have

business that is resuming, you have the ability to borrow money again, all things that are critical to economic functions. why we did the bailout. the frustration is -- it's like if you look at credit card bill for america, it's suddenly exploded to o $14 trillion off balance sheet at the fed, few trillion dollars at the treasury. now add a few trillion for health care. imagine for just paying for everything out of your checking account or out of the money that you have, you put it all on the credit card at the government which is basically what we did, and now if you ignore the credit card bill everything looks pretty good. >> i know you just explained it, but i still don't understand how to could be both when you hear from elizabeth warren had to say, just about the banks alone. >> the thing -- the risk, mika, is now with the government, with the u.s. currency, with u.s. interest rates. we took the risk that could cause the banks to fail, that could cause economic activity to cease, ka cause the financial system to collapse. we traded basically a financial

crisis for a funding crisis. >> so in the long run, then harold ford, the real risk has been pushed to the out years where we run out of money. the president already said we'll run out of money. we've got deficits that are unsustainable, china's not going to give us money anymore. a lot of people suggesting interest rates could explode. >> dylan, i understand what he's saying when he says both the right -- he's probably right in that regard. two things, one, in the short term we're going to spend a lot of money. the president made that clear from the outset. the question is whether or not you can create jobs in the long run, create some fiscal responsibility, you have a driver or generator of economic growth. this president believes energy -- investments in new energy products and revamping the health care system will slow the growth of government spending. that's the gamble they're taking. i happen to think on this health care the death panels, the size of the tax increase or suggested size of the tax increase, some of the other concerns, it might

behoove the president and white house to go on the road with one or two republicans over the next few weeks and allow this bill to look bipartisan, not only appear bipartisan but to be embraced bipartisan. the death panel came from -- >> it might help the president if it looks bipartisan. >> pat buchanan, the thing i've never been able to scare up is the president saying we've got a health care cost problem. we're going to take care of that cost problem by spending more money. cbo agrees with me. i think that's the disconnect here. as dylan talks about long-term deficits. >> we're going to continue costs of medical care and reduce them, at the same time adding 47 million people to the rolls. doesn't seem like it works. we were told yesterday all these

assets on these banks' books are as bad as they ever were. dylan, they're still sitting on the books, she is saying. in addition to that, commercial mortgages are going to come due and a tremendous number of them are rotten. they're still sitting on the books. that's why these banks are going to hit another crisis. >> but pat, they're not. the federal reserve chairman -- the way they solved for this, a, we'll create infinity. you can use the taxpayer's credit card at the federal reserve to solve your problems. that's why we went from 0 to $14 trillion at the federal reserve. that's our credit card. the other thing that we did is we allowed more accounting leniency so stress on the banks of having to reflect these toxic mortgages and commercial loans you referenced, pat, is relieved for them because now they're no longer obliged to have to mark them at such low prices. all the problems that the banks participated in creating were given -- or the worst of the problems, i should say, that the banks created were given to the taxpayer which is why people get so frustrated when they see all of the things that they see. >> savannah guthrie.

>> but dylan, how does changing the accounting standard resolve the problem? >> lessening the accounting standards. >> it seems like a hat trick or -- >> here's my best example. imagine the difference between what you think your house might be worth if you sold it over the next ten years, and what your house would be worth if you had to sell it at noon today. and that's the difference. that's the difference with these banks, what can i sell these things for today, what are they really marked at, and what conceptually do you think this is worth based on future activity? remember, there is a financial nuclear weapon that was brought into the room last fall to protect this country from those problems. we extended these len yencies. we now need to deal with the system that created the financial nuclear weapon.

>> i feel better. >> elizabeth would suggest from yesterday that we rebuild that nuclear weapon again. this one could be deadlier because the standards are being lowered. >> that's exactly right. >> thank you so much, money party. >> thank you very much. >> willie and i are going to tell jokes anyway. it is still august, it is still summer. >> the last 30 minutes of this show -- i'm just saying this -- okay -- may be the greatest 30 minutes ever in the history of televised news. because coming up next, we've got international superstar erin burnett. then we have shrummy, then something you kids have been watching since 1947, the washington roundtable when "morning joe" returns. - hi. - blue shirts: hello!

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>> there's only one place to go to get inside the numbers. you go to an international superstar. do we know one? >> i know one. >> who? >> her name's erin. >> hello, guys! >> no! it's erin burnett, international superstar. >> what are you saying? >> i was just joking. >> i love savannah. she can be the international superstar. >> i love you, too, erin. >> jobless claims up 4,000 to 558,000. that's all that about in line with expectations. continuing to show what we've seen, a bit of stable days there. some people might have hoped we do a little bit better but that number is pretty solid for what we're looking for. retail sales is maybe what's slightly disappointing. i'm trying to get the exact number. we have seen a drop in futures. we were up 12 points on the s&p, now only up about seven.

still though a strong open no matter how you look at it. on retail, big headline of the day is walmart, better than expected. it is the world's biggest retailer and it is going to open up about 2%. the dow component. that's going to help the overall market. all in, a positive atmosphere. you heard the fed yesterday say things are leveling out. that's slightly better than being stable. in general we're seeing an upgrade in the economic outlook but most important, joe, to your point about inflation, no upgrade whatsoever in the inflation outlook which means rates stay low for a long period of time, the economy starts to recover. hopefully. that's the theory. >> so the word on the street pretty positive than this morning, erin. happy days aren't here again but they don't believe we're headed for another cliff. >> yeah. i think that's completely the way to look at it. that's why you're going to see a sort of positive atmosphere. it started in europe, the economy there only shrank .1%. it was supposed to shrink .5%.

europe has been seen by far the weakest of the three stool legs, when we talk about china, the u.s. and europe. two other crucial stories. one, watch this sugar story. this is a great story, joe. it is right up your alley because you got the big food companies going to washington saying we're going to run out of sugar. sugar prices are at a 30-year high. who controls american sugar? >> south florida? >> yeah. down in florida, it's a family that still controls most of the sugar production and trade in this country. we have a lot of tariffs not allowing a lot of imports from other places. we'll see if the family will fight back. last, but not least, there's been apparently a pirate attack by swedish pirates. first, pirate attack on a major ship in northern europe in modern times. you know i follow pirate attacks. >> what's that? >> pirates are people, too.

>> thank you so much, erin burnett. greatly appreciate it. > top democratic strategist bob shrum will be here, as well as our roundtable in washington, harold ford, pat buchanan, savannah guthrie and mika brzezinski. a we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst sympts feel better, indoors and outdoors. with zyrtec®, the fastest... 24-hour allergy medicine, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. zyrtec® works fast, so i can love the air™.

welcome back to "morning joe." a cloudy view of new york city. let's go from new york, up to cape cod. talk to democratic strategist bob shrum. he's on cape cod this morning, of course, to attend eunice shriver's wake later on today. we're going to be talking about that extraordinary woman in a moment, bob. but first, let's take a look at something the president had to say about one of his good republican allies on capitol hill. take a listen. >> i think that there are some

of my republican friends on capitol hill who are sincerely trying to figure out if they can find a health care bill that works. chuck grassley of iowa, mike enzy of wyoming, olympia snowe of maine. >> chuck grassley among the good allies on the hill. let's go to iowa yesterday to see chuck grassley rurnt compliment to the president. >> there are some feel because of the house bill there's counseling for end of life. and from that standpoint, you have every right to fear. you have counseling at the end of life, you ought to have counseling 20 years before you die. we should not have a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on grandma. >> bob shrum, the president's ally said to the seniors, he was

reading it like i am, you have every right to fear it. we shouldn't have the government program that pulls the plug on granny. if that's barack obama's friends in the republican party, i'd hate to see his enemies. >> i think to some extent you're right about that. the fact is the president's reached out, he's tried to do this in a bipartisan way. that element of the bill actually came from a republican senator. it makes a lot of sense. a lot of us i think have living wills and have set out conditions under which we want treatment and don't want treatment. it's been used as a scare tactic. but look, in the end of the day i think that the president's going to get a health bill. hopefully it will be a bipartisan bill but if not i think it will be put through the senate, 50 votes in the reconciliation process where you don't have a filibuster. >> is charles grassley's

comments yesterday a vindication of those democrats who say forget the bipartisan bill, we can pass this, we need to go it alone, republicans just need to get out of the way? >> well, i think that would be a mistake. i think making the effort to do this on a bipartisan basis makes a lot of sense. i think the country in the end will clearly see that's what's happened. if the democrats have to move forward by themselves, then they have to move forward by themselves. look, reconciliation has been used many times, joe, as you know. it was used to pass major reagan programs, it was used to pass major bush programs. it may have to be used to pass the health bill but i don't think we're at that point yet. >> pat buchanan. >> paul begala writes i went for 100% of everything we wanted to get, hillary care or nothing. but now it is time to pare back, get republican support and get it over and done with. >> i think there may be some

things to do come out of the bill. it may be unfortunate but you may have to give up this counseling which people who have money and resources and a lot of knowledge and access get as a matter of course. but there are some things that i think aren't going to be negotiable. it doesn't have to be -- the bill doesn't have to contain a public option, but it does at least have to contain some kind of cooperative that provides real access to insurance for people who otherwise can't get it and provides some competition for the insurance industry. >> harold ford. >> good morning. quick question. you are one of the master political thinkers of this era. at this moment, how and what would you recommend to the white house, how should they proceed over the next few weeks to dispel some of the falsehoods about this bill and to promote what's going in order to see it pass? the next two weeks, how should they behave if shrummy were running it? >> well, as i told pat yesterday, this happened in 1936 with social security when the republicans were saying that people would have to wear dog

tags, they'd have to be fingerprinted. democrats around the country got very worried and said to fdr, you have to go out there and really explain this. that's exactly what he did and his opponent carried two states. so i think the president has to put real effort into explaining what's in this bill, dispelling the fears. don't care whether people use the word defensive or offensive. i think if he does that, he'll get a bill. the other factor, harold -- and you know this because you were there -- moderates, blue dogs, as they call themselves, are going to have to think long and hard about the impact, if for example they broke and health care didn't pass. i think democrats would pay a price in the next mid term election and i think the people who would pay the steepest price are the moderates. there was a guy name cooper from tennessee who thought he was going to be in the senate who wasn't in the senate after he made a lot of distance between himself and bill clinton in 1994. what democrats need to do is get together with the president and pass this bill hopefully with some republican support. >> let me just say, bob shrum,

in that 1936 dog tag debate, you and buchanan thought that you were some of the most ill lum natu inating arguments of the debate. >> bob, do you think that the obama administration sort of overlearned the lessons of clinton's experience with health care? in other words, that bill was written in secret, they say. it was basically dropped on the door steps of congress. this one, obama's letting congress -- write their five different bills. should they have pursued some middle ground as opposed to the situation they're in right now, that there is really no one bill for the president to sell right now. >> but there's one approach. i think, savannah, that it's very much more likely that we're going to see a health care bill now than it was as the process moved along in '93 and '94.

in that sense i think the president's doing the right thing. this happens all the time. this happened -- i think i was on and we were talking about the stimulus package and the president was in trouble and he wasn't going to get it and he should have taken a bolder starn, he should have been more involved if actually writing the bill. then he got the stimulus package. i think this is news. i think it's something the media's interested in but i think in the end there are a lot of objective factors that are moving us toward the passage of a health care bill in the fall. >> all right. hey, bob, thank you so much for being with us. and certainly please give our best to the kennedy family. eunice shriver, an extraordinary woman and i'm glad you're up there. >> thank you. of course, on cape cod today, bob shrum up there, as are the kennedys and the friends of the kennedys for the wake of an extraordinary woman, eunice shriver. pat, i want to follow up on what savannah said. one thing that i haven't been able to understand -- just politically, even though i

oppose this bill -- politically i haven't understood why the white house hasn't taken more control of health care. and i think that maybe savannah is on to something here, maybe they overlearned the lessons of '93. instead of controlling it and drafting it in secret, we're just going to let everybody in the house draw up their form, we'll see what sticks. >> i think that's exactly right. i do think i agree with harold and i do think obama at this point -- i don't agree with shrum that his speaking's going to do anything. correlation of forces in this town is sufficient to get some legislation. i think to go up to obama now step in and say, look, sorry, you guys -- get rid of that death -- just say good-bye, good luck, and put together a bill that has enough features in this t that can bring aboard some republicans, then go up there in september and get all your people here before you come back, all the leaders, and say, look, this is what we're going to do. we lost this, got to realize

that, and do it. he's got to decide and say, this is what i need, this is what i want and we can't get that, i'm sorry. >> mika, "the washington post" on ed pat was talking about, paul begala said i tried to get 100% in '934,, '94 and i got nothing. >> what would happen if the republicans and people on the farther right out there having their voices heard in kind of a shrill way took your advice and just shut up for a while and watched this happen. what would happen, do you think? >> i'm not talking about those that are going to town hall meetings. that's their right. i'm talking though about sarah palin bringing up death panels, newt gingrich agreeing on the death panel part. talk radio show hosts suggesting barack obama's a nazi or racist. those people need to understand that every time they open their

mouths, chuck grassley every time he opens his mouth and says that this government program could pull the plug from granny. they are hurting the conservative cause, they are hurting the republican party and they are pushing moderates like clair mccaskill and evan bayh closer to obama. so they need to be quiet. the health care outpouring? i think that's all legitimate. my only suggestion would be that they show respect and when the lady's talking, you don't boo. i think though democrats can use this, harold, in a positive way for their cause. it just shows the anger out there and say, come on, let's have a civil debate. >> no one wants guns brought to anything when you're trying to have a political conversation, for that matter any conversation. >> you agree with that, pat buchanan? >> i think pat's packing right now. two, the beer summit was successful for the president. he brought together two opposing views and showed there was far more harmony and far less

division and chasm between them. we might need something centered around the public. this might be the moment for the president to say, let's come together somebody sing from the same himmal and dispel things people are talking about that aren't in this bill, amplify things that are in the bill, then come september, the leadership in the house, boehner and pelosi, they can come forward and say here's what we heard from the public and here's what we're going to put forward. >> savannah, this is a democratic town. democrats on the house, the senate, the white house. should the president -- is the president going to say we're going to do this without republicans? i reached out to grassley, he slapped my hand. enough. >> i think it's clear they have not closed the door on that. some people call it the nuclear option. it may come to that but they're still holding out hope they can

come up with some kind of consensus bill. >> mika, at this point if i were obama i'd look at the six moderate democrats or so and pull them into the white house and work them every day. what do you want? what do you need? what will it take for me to give you covering a and where i get health care. >> it needs to be bipartisan support when you have these massive -- >> it is not going to happen. you look at sotomayor's vote? more partisan on the republicans' part than any time since the '60s. >> what you're saying, harold, is that he needs to do what some would argue he does best or what he campaigned on. >> his very best. >> chuck grassley is responding to real fears in iowa. whatever you say about it, those fears are part of life. >> add a really bad economy. >> reporter: people are desperate for health care to that, you've got a problem. >> i'm talking just pure

politics? pure politics at this point, obama needs to focus on democratic moderates because republican moderates aren't following. we'll be right back. the great taste of splenda® no calorie sweetener and added a little fiber? sweet! sweet! (together) sweet! (announcer) now for the first time, a gram of healthy fiber in every packet. sweet! (announcer) splenda® with fiber.

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welcome back to "morning joe." i'm meteorologist bill karins. quick travel and weather update for you.

new york city, cloudy. rain in the forecast. light rain in connecticut and also massachusetts. it is not miserable out and only causing minor airport delays. newark 30 minutes, boston logan also at 30. 15 in philadelphia. as far as the forecast for today goes, there will be showers and storms from fully up through new england. other big airports looking good. d.c., atlanta, all the way through miami and chicago, no problems at o'hare today. actually probably one of the best forecasts today is in chicago. rest of the country, everyone out west just waking up, showers an storms today in seattle. sacramento and l.a. 96. right around 81. finally, tropical depression number two is dying. it is almost dead. this system never had a chance to get together. dry air moved in. looks like that's not going to be an issue for any of us. coming up next on "morning joe," we'll find out if we naing onon ud r.

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